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Liam explains how engineering teams in the US and China differ, what it’s like to launch a startup in both San Francisco and Shanghai, and the merit of focusing on incremental innovation rather than massive market disruption. Plus: The incomparable value of good lighting.",[],"normal",{"_key":79,"_type":69,"children":80,"markDefs":86,"style":77},"5f86f491aa0e",[81],{"_key":82,"_type":73,"marks":83,"text":85},"5f86f491aa0e0",[84],"strong","Episode notes:",[],{"_key":88,"_type":69,"children":89,"markDefs":112,"style":77},"97978b3bc700",[90,94,99,103,108],{"_key":91,"_type":73,"marks":92,"text":93},"97978b3bc7000",[],"Born and raised in China, Liam arrived in the US to attend the University of California at Berkeley, where he studied ",{"_key":95,"_type":73,"marks":96,"text":98},"97978b3bc7001",[97],"18a79138c1d7","human-computer interaction",{"_key":100,"_type":73,"marks":101,"text":102},"97978b3bc7002",[],". After some initial “culture shock” at the differences between his education in China and the “open and innovative” Berkeley environment, Liam thrived. After graduating, he worked at LinkedIn before returning to China to found a startup called ",{"_key":104,"_type":73,"marks":105,"text":107},"97978b3bc7003",[106],"e18545955d4b","Zaihui",{"_key":109,"_type":73,"marks":110,"text":111},"97978b3bc7004",[],", offering ecommerce SaaS solutions for retailers.",[113,116],{"_key":97,"_type":114,"href":115,"reference":12},"link","https:\u002F\u002Fhci.berkeley.edu\u002F",{"_key":106,"_type":114,"href":117,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fzaihui\u002F",{"_key":119,"_type":69,"children":120,"markDefs":134,"style":77},"dd0b345ea4e9",[121,125,130],{"_key":122,"_type":73,"marks":123,"text":124},"dd0b345ea4e90",[],"Liam describes the still-commonplace ",{"_key":126,"_type":73,"marks":127,"text":129},"dd0b345ea4e91",[128],"4385cca02f76","9-9-6 schedule",{"_key":131,"_type":73,"marks":132,"text":133},"dd0b345ea4e92",[]," (working from nine in the morning until nine at night, six days a week) and the approach of assigning multiple teams to compete on different visions for the same product.",[135],{"_key":128,"_type":114,"href":136,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.businessinsider.com\u002F996-work-culture-schedule-popular-in-china-explained-2021-7",{"_key":138,"_type":69,"children":139,"markDefs":153,"style":77},"b16a95c70d9a",[140,144,149],{"_key":141,"_type":73,"marks":142,"text":143},"b16a95c70d9a0",[],"In Liam’s view, US and Chinese engineering teams take different approaches to work, work-life balance, innovation, and risk. US teams pursue “breakthrough innovations” that impress customers, while “hustling and hardworking” Chinese teams “want to ",{"_key":145,"_type":73,"marks":146,"text":148},"b16a95c70d9a1",[147],"192d68f8ab46","move fast and break things",{"_key":150,"_type":73,"marks":151,"text":152},"b16a95c70d9a2",[],"” to copy what works and make it incrementally better.",[154],{"_key":147,"_type":114,"href":155,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.jontaplin.com\u002Fmove-fast-and-break-things",{"_key":157,"_type":69,"children":158,"markDefs":172,"style":77},"f510109d94c7",[159,163,168],{"_key":160,"_type":73,"marks":161,"text":162},"f510109d94c70",[],"What would a hybrid of these approaches look like? Liam’s new startup, ",{"_key":164,"_type":73,"marks":165,"text":167},"f510109d94c71",[166],"bf7a4173fc6a","Immersive",{"_key":169,"_type":73,"marks":170,"text":171},"f510109d94c72",[],", is combining teams from the US and China to find out.",[173],{"_key":166,"_type":114,"href":174,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fimmersive-inc\u002F",{"_key":176,"_type":69,"children":177,"markDefs":191,"style":77},"fe4425bddb9a",[178,182,187],{"_key":179,"_type":73,"marks":180,"text":181},"fe4425bddb9a0",[],"Follow Liam on ",{"_key":183,"_type":73,"marks":184,"text":186},"fe4425bddb9a1",[185],"9929fb2d781c","LinkedIn",{"_key":188,"_type":73,"marks":189,"text":190},"fe4425bddb9a2",[],".",[192],{"_key":185,"_type":114,"href":193,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fliamyz\u002F",{"_key":195,"_type":69,"children":196,"markDefs":227,"style":77},"9e3df7482d2a",[197,201,206,210,215,219,224],{"_key":198,"_type":73,"marks":199,"text":200},"9e3df7482d2a0",[],"Today’s ",{"_key":202,"_type":73,"marks":203,"text":205},"9e3df7482d2a1",[204],"aaf1d5540d3c","Lifeboat badge",{"_key":207,"_type":73,"marks":208,"text":209},"9e3df7482d2a2",[]," goes to user ",{"_key":211,"_type":73,"marks":212,"text":214},"9e3df7482d2a3",[213],"a7bd8456dde0","Abhijit",{"_key":216,"_type":73,"marks":217,"text":218},"9e3df7482d2a4",[]," for their answer to the question ",{"_key":220,"_type":73,"marks":221,"text":223},"9e3df7482d2a5",[222],"5a2cd3d2ac00","Set difference versus set subtraction",{"_key":225,"_type":73,"marks":226,"text":190},"9e3df7482d2a6",[],[228,230,232],{"_key":204,"_type":114,"href":229,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fhelp\u002Fbadges\u002F8842\u002Flifeboat",{"_key":213,"_type":114,"href":231,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fusers\u002F977038\u002Fabhijit",{"_key":222,"_type":114,"href":233,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fquestions\u002F30986751\u002Fset-difference-versus-set-subtraction",{"_key":235,"_type":69,"children":236,"markDefs":242,"style":77},"6d4670bd33d7",[237],{"_key":238,"_type":73,"marks":239,"text":241},"6d4670bd33d70",[240],"aabd480dba45","TRANSCRIPT",[243],{"_key":240,"_type":114,"href":244,"reference":12},"https:\u002F\u002Fthe-stack-overflow-podcast.simplecast.com\u002Fepisodes\u002Fcombining-the-best-of-engineering-cultures-from-silicon-valley-and-shanghai\u002Ftranscript",{"_key":246,"_type":65,"markDefs":12,"url":247},"829953ebcd98","https:\u002F\u002Fart19.com\u002Fshows\u002F2355b740-4531-4071-a3ab-5907a95a36d3\u002Fepisodes\u002Ff157a09a-0a3b-49ca-a539-e74df17cc5c6",true,"2022\u002F08\u002F19","The home team sits down with Liam Zhao, founder and CEO of Immersive, a startup that gives creators tools to produce engaging virtual content and events. ",{"_type":53,"asset":252},{"_ref":253,"_type":56},"image-472725c034235a56301dc8caf0ed41b3d298c57a-1200x630-png",{"code":255,"language":256},"\u003C!-- wp:embed {\"url\":\"https:\u002F\u002Fyoutu.be\u002F9-aTsD2RIBk\",\"type\":\"video\",\"providerNameSlug\":\"youtube\",\"responsive\":true,\"className\":\"wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"} -->\n\u003Cfigure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\">\u003Cdiv class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\nhttps:\u002F\u002Fyoutu.be\u002F9-aTsD2RIBk\n\u003C\u002Fdiv>\u003C\u002Ffigure>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:embed -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>The home team sits down with Liam Zhao, founder and CEO of Immersive, a startup that gives creators tools to produce engaging virtual content and events. Liam explains how engineering teams in the US and China differ, what it’s like to launch a startup in both San Francisco and Shanghai, and the merit of focusing on incremental innovation rather than massive market disruption. Plus: The incomparable value of good lighting.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>\u003Cstrong>Episode notes:\u003C\u002Fstrong>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>Born and raised in China, Liam arrived in the US to attend the University of California at Berkeley, where he studied \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fhci.berkeley.edu\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">human-computer interaction\u003C\u002Fa>. After some initial “culture shock” at the differences between his education in China and the “open and innovative” Berkeley environment, Liam thrived. After graduating, he worked at LinkedIn before returning to China to found a startup called \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fzaihui\u002F\">Zaihui\u003C\u002Fa>, offering ecommerce SaaS solutions for retailers.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>Liam describes the still-commonplace \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.businessinsider.com\u002F996-work-culture-schedule-popular-in-china-explained-2021-7\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">9-9-6 schedule\u003C\u002Fa> (working from nine in the morning until nine at night, six days a week) and the approach of assigning multiple teams to compete on different visions for the same product.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>In Liam’s view, US and Chinese engineering teams take different approaches to work, work-life balance, innovation, and risk. US teams pursue “breakthrough innovations” that impress customers, while “hustling and hardworking” Chinese teams “want to \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.jontaplin.com\u002Fmove-fast-and-break-things\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">move fast and break things\u003C\u002Fa>” to copy what works and make it incrementally better. \u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>What would a hybrid of these approaches look like? Liam’s new startup, \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fcompany\u002Fimmersive-inc\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Immersive\u003C\u002Fa>, is combining teams from the US and China to find out.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>Follow Liam on \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fwww.linkedin.com\u002Fin\u002Fliamyz\u002F\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">LinkedIn\u003C\u002Fa>.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>Today’s \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fhelp\u002Fbadges\u002F8842\u002Flifeboat\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Lifeboat badge\u003C\u002Fa> goes to user \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fusers\u002F977038\u002Fabhijit\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Abhijit\u003C\u002Fa> for their answer to the question \u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fstackoverflow.com\u002Fquestions\u002F30986751\u002Fset-difference-versus-set-subtraction\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">Set difference versus set subtraction\u003C\u002Fa>.\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:paragraph -->\n\u003Cp>\u003Ca href=\"https:\u002F\u002Fthe-stack-overflow-podcast.simplecast.com\u002Fepisodes\u002Fcombining-the-best-of-engineering-cultures-from-silicon-valley-and-shanghai\u002Ftranscript\" target=\"_blank\" rel=\"noreferrer noopener\">TRANSCRIPT\u003C\u002Fa>\u003C\u002Fp>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:paragraph -->\n\n\u003C!-- wp:html -->\n\u003Ciframe height=\"200px\" width=\"100%\" frameborder=\"no\" scrolling=\"no\" seamless=\"\" src=\"https:\u002F\u002Fplayer.simplecast.com\u002Febed25c0-ed5f-4d87-9f31-d249506ae469?dark=false\">\u003C\u002Fiframe>\n\u003C!-- \u002Fwp:html -->","html","2022-08-19T14:27:24.000Z",{"current":259},"combining-the-best-of-engineering-cultures-from-silicon-valley-and-shanghai-ep-475",[261,269],{"_createdAt":262,"_id":263,"_rev":264,"_type":265,"_updatedAt":262,"slug":266,"title":268},"2023-05-23T16:43:21Z","wp-tagcat-podcast","9HpbCsT2tq0xwozQfkc4ih","blogTag",{"current":267},"podcast","The Stack Overflow Podcast",{"_createdAt":262,"_id":270,"_rev":264,"_type":265,"_updatedAt":262,"slug":271,"title":273},"wp-tagcat-the-stack-overflow-podcast",{"current":272},"the-stack-overflow-podcast","the stack overflow podcast","Combining the best of engineering cultures from Silicon Valley and Shanghai (Ep. 475)",[276,282,288,294],{"_id":277,"publishedAt":278,"slug":279,"sponsored":12,"title":281},"76c9771b-34e6-4d98-8641-ecefc711f0ef","2026-07-06T15:23:34.559Z",{"_type":10,"current":280},"when-the-sensor-starts-thinking-snortml-agentic-ai-and-the-evolving-architecture-of-intrusion-detection","When the sensor starts thinking: SnortML, agentic AI, and the evolving architecture of intrusion detection",{"_id":283,"publishedAt":284,"slug":285,"sponsored":12,"title":287},"28e560af-f0aa-4d46-bd90-f435ad604aa7","2026-06-26T14:00:27.102Z",{"_type":10,"current":286},"paging-charity-how-can-engineering-leaders-avoid-becoming-bond-villains","Paging Charity! How can engineering leaders avoid becoming Bond villains?",{"_id":289,"publishedAt":290,"slug":291,"sponsored":12,"title":293},"4b22c2a3-3779-4966-93eb-5230391dbdce","2026-06-23T14:08:58.595Z",{"_type":10,"current":292},"your-ai-shipped-a-backend-that-boots-that-is-the-whole-problem","Your AI shipped a backend that boots. That is the whole problem.",{"_id":295,"publishedAt":296,"slug":297,"sponsored":12,"title":299},"5cf362e1-fe7b-45af-b69c-914731c6a052","2026-06-23T14:00:00.000Z",{"_type":10,"current":298},"the-2026-developer-survey-is-now-open-for-human-developers-only","The 2026 Developer Survey is now open (for human developers only)!",{"data":301,"sourceMap":-1},{"count":302,"lastTimestamp":12},0]